00:21:40 Jordan Piel: hello from Boston 00:21:48 Jane Turner: Hello from Scotland! 00:21:53 Molly Rookwood: Hello from Nova Scotia! 00:21:54 Christian Wilkie: Many happy returns from Minneapolis. 00:21:54 Jacqueline Baumgardt: Hello from Twyford in the UK 00:21:56 Marney Ellis: Hello from Boise 00:21:56 Laura Hebert: HI guys - Greetings from VA 00:21:57 Laurie Ulster: Hello from New York 00:21:57 Jan Harness: Hi from Kansas City 00:21:58 Maleigha conrad: Hello from Germany 00:21:58 Erin Schumaker: Hi from NY 00:22:00 Eva Maria Lucero: Hello from Santa Fe NM :) 00:22:00 Susan Dunlap: Hi from Louisville. 00:22:00 Robin Facer: Hello from Scotland! 00:22:01 Kim Ledgerwood: Hello from Maryland! 00:22:02 Melissa Somerdin: Hello from Florida! 00:22:02 Lisa McLendon: Hello from Kansas! 00:22:02 Jennie Callas: hi from Illinois 00:22:03 Linnea Peterson: Hello from Minneapolis! 00:22:03 Bharat Nayak: Hello from India! 00:22:04 R Kearey: UK! 00:22:05 Anna Jackson: Hi from DC! 00:22:05 Rebecca Meacham: Hi from snowy, snowy Wisconsin 00:22:06 Brandi Shaffer: Hi from Nebraska 00:22:06 Kay Brogno: Hello from NYC, Queens 00:22:07 Carol Mangis: hi from pittsburgh! 00:22:08 Barbie Halaby: Hello from Maryland! 00:22:08 Liz Prouty: Hi from MD! 00:22:08 Tiffany Ribeiro: Toronto, Canada! 00:22:08 Christi Cassidy: Greetings from Hudson, NY (the Hudson Valley). 00:22:10 Caroline Smrstik: Hello from Zurich, Switzerland 00:22:11 Maria Sestito: Hi — and good morning! — from Southern California 00:22:11 Bill Horner: Hello from North Carolina! 00:22:11 Melissa Lynch: Greetings from Worcester, Mass.! 00:22:12 Jimena Gonzalez: Hi from Guatemala! 00:22:12 Glenda Burgess: Hi everyone, from Spokane WA! 00:22:13 Cheryl Barnes-Neff: Hi from sunny Central FL 00:22:13 Kyle Mackie: Hi from Idaho! 00:22:13 Meg Martin: Hello from a very snowy Ann Arbor, Mich.! 00:22:14 Manal Ghosain: Hi from Vancouver Island Canada 00:22:15 Laura Wershler: hello from Calgary, Alberta 00:22:15 Andrew Branca: Hi from Arlington, Texas 00:22:15 Kara Arundel: Hi from Washington, DC 00:22:16 Joanne Williams: Hello from Olivet, Michigan 00:22:16 Noel Rubinton: DC! 00:22:16 Amy Paradysz: Maine 00:22:16 National Press Club Journalism Institute: Hi everyone, welcome! 00:22:16 Renee Cordes: Greetings from Maine. 00:22:17 Anne Ladewig: Hello from Arlington, Va. 00:22:17 Patricia Ogilvie: Hello from Alberta! 00:22:18 Pernille Seier: Hello from Denmark 00:22:19 Joann Reed: Hi from Lake Placid in the Adirondack Mountains! 00:22:19 Shannon Scott: Morning from northeastern North Carolina! 00:22:21 Robin Davis: Hello from Maine! 00:22:22 Julie Kendrick: Hi from snowy Minneapolis! 00:22:23 Veronica Tremblay: Hello from Houston! 00:22:23 National Press Club Journalism Institute: We have a Live Transcription (Closed Captioning) option available during this program. 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You can also disable this at any point by clicking “hide subtitle.” 00:22:23 Bianca Bosman: Anyone else listening in from the Netherlands? 00:22:23 Bernadette Goldman: Go Cats! 00:22:24 Rochelle Gluzman: Hello from Paris 00:22:24 Julie Ehlers: Hi from Philadelphia! 00:22:25 Pia Salter: Greetings from Welwyn Garden City in the UK! :) 00:22:25 DeAnna Burghart: Hi from Southern California! 00:22:25 Sarah Dolezal: Athens Georgia 00:22:25 Beth Wojiski: Hello from rainy coastal NC! 00:22:25 John French: Hello from Baltimore, Md. 00:22:25 Steven Fouch: Hi from Kent in England 00:22:26 Ursula Szmulowicz: Hello from Cleveland, OH! 00:22:26 Joan Fuchsman: Hi from DC! 00:22:27 Judy Ashkenaz: Hello from Beverly, Mass.! 00:22:28 Denise Watson: Good morning from Virginia! 00:22:29 Nancy Dreyer: Hi from Boston, MA 00:22:29 Jeff Helgesen: Greetings from Illinois. 00:22:29 Samara Akers: Hello from Minnesota 00:22:29 Cheryl Knott: Hello from rural Arizona! 00:22:30 Kate Kolberg: HI from Montreal :) 00:22:30 National Press Club Journalism Institute: If you are joining us on a mobile device, you can opt in or out of live transcription by going into your Meeting Settings at any point during the webcast. 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You can select or de-select to have Closed Captioning on. 00:22:33 Holly Silvers: Hello from Roanoke, VA 00:22:34 Josephine Sciortino: Hello from Montreal, Canada! 00:22:35 paul iasevoli: Paul Iasevoli Florida 00:22:35 Dezimey Kum: Hi from Northern VA! 00:22:38 Ann Fields: Howdy from Dallas, Texas! 00:22:38 Dawn Mangine: Hello from Pittsburgh, PA! 00:22:38 Jay Bennett: Hi from Phoenix. 00:22:39 Mark Fagan: I'm in Lawrence, America -- home to the defending national champion Kansas Jayhawks! 00:22:40 Candida Hadley: Hello from Halifax! 00:22:40 Susan Downing: Hello from Columbia, MO! 00:22:45 Morgan Soares-Astbury: Greetings from Berlin, Germany! 00:22:45 Sam S: Hello from Bombay, India - summer is already here 00:22:46 Roger Gilmartin: Hi from Charlotte, NC. 00:22:49 Angie McCauley: Hello from Dallas, Texas! 00:22:49 Sarah Dolezal: Athens Georgia 00:22:49 Edwin Lake: Hello everyone, Ed Lake 00:22:49 Brenda Gouws: Hello from Durban, South Africa 00:22:51 Stephanie Rowe: Hello from down the street in Washington, DC! 00:22:58 Linda Henry: Hi from Minnesota! 00:22:59 Maria Turner: Hello from Montreal 00:22:59 Victoria Jennings: Hi from Winchester, U.K.! 00:23:03 Ronei Harden-Moroney: Hello from Dallas, TX! 00:23:03 Sally Bahner: Hello from Branford Connecticut! 00:23:05 Shannon Walsh: Hello from Florida! 00:23:05 Dana Williams: Attending from San Diego, CA. 00:23:06 Judy Marchman: Hello from Austin, Texas! 00:23:08 Dana Stewart: Hello from Northern VA 00:23:11 Tom McMahon: Hello from the Great State of Alabama. 00:23:11 Tracey Chick: Hi from Dorset in the UK 00:23:11 Susan Stim: Hello from Rochester, NY! 00:23:12 John Moir: Hi from rainy Santa Cruz. 00:23:14 MJ Bulmer: Greetings from Seattle 00:23:14 Melanie Cohen: Hello from D.C.! 00:23:15 Marticia Madory: Hello from Hyde Park, NY! 00:23:18 Elizabeth Colton: Greetings from Asheville, North Carolina. I'm a huge fan of Ben Dreyer's and have read and enjoyed his book several times. I keep it out on a nearby desk ready to read again anytime. 00:23:20 Ursula Arends: Hello from Cape Town, South Africa! 00:23:25 Amanda Jackson: Amanda from Boulder, CO 00:23:25 Crystal Nielsen: Hello from Western Massachusetts! 00:23:29 Edward Segal: Hi from Washington Dc 00:23:30 Lief Nielsen: Aloha from Brooklyn. Copy editor for 25 years. I work at Hearst. 00:23:34 Tim Bronson: Howdy from southern VT 00:23:34 Laurie Hanson: Hello from St. Paul, MN 00:23:40 Jacqueline Baumgardt: Hey, @Brenda Gouws 00:23:44 Halima Haque: Hello, this is Halima from Bangladesh. 00:23:45 Alex Hayes: Greetings from Hershey, Pa.! 00:23:48 Pip Rowson: Hi from Winchester, UK! 00:23:51 Dayo Williams: Hi everyone. I am Dayo Williams. Standards Editor, Premium Times, Nigeria. 00:24:04 Eilis Flynn: Good morning from Seattle! 00:24:12 Katie Corder: Hello from Fort Collins, Colorado! 00:24:12 Mary Nuss: Hi from Louisville, KY 00:24:22 Elena Ferrarin: Hi from Chicago! 00:24:23 Tessa Thornley: Hi from Kingston upon Thames, UK! 00:24:26 James Tynch: Hi from NC 00:24:27 Nancy Dreyer: I'm a science writer. Great to see all of you! 00:24:40 Joanna MacGugan: Shirley Jackson!! ❤️ 00:24:45 Meredith Gilston: Hello from Rockville MD 00:24:55 Beth Francesco (she/her) / NPCJI: Learn more about Dreyer’s English: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/182489/benjamin-dreyer/ 00:24:57 Vineeta Anand: Delighted to be here. I'm a huge fan of Benjamin Dreyer. 00:24:59 Alex Tonnetti: Hi, I am Alex, in Italy rn, I'm a science writer. 00:25:00 Karen Bond: I love the book and recommend it to all my adult students. 00:25:02 Morgan Soares-Astbury: I have DE in multiple formats too! It's fantastic 00:25:03 National Press Club Journalism Institute: Link to the book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/232363/dreyers-english-by-benjamin-dreyer/ 00:25:04 Michaeleen: Good morning from San Diego 00:25:07 Miriam E. Tucker: Bethesda, MD! 00:25:07 Linda Henry: I have the book and the game Stet ! 00:25:17 Rebecca Shore: Hello from Louisville, KY! (I have the game Stet, too.) 00:25:26 Erin Martineau: Hello from New Mexico! 00:25:28 Robert Friedman: Top of the morning from San Francisco 00:25:48 Julie Goulis: Hello from Cleveland, OH! 00:26:08 Beth Francesco (she/her) / NPCJI: Welcome, everyone! We are so glad you are here. 00:26:19 Lisa Tally: Hello from West Lafayette, Indiana! 00:26:25 Robin Cain: Hello from Chicago! 00:26:39 Tom Reale: Hi from Anchorage 00:27:08 Melanie Cohen: gently and respectfully...that can be so tough sometimes :-D 00:27:15 Brenda Gouws: Hi @Jaqueline Baumgardt 🌻 00:27:39 Mary-Carol Riehs: Hello, from River Forest, Illinois! and, Go, Wildcats! 00:27:58 Beth Francesco (she/her) / NPCJI: Quick note: We are recording the program and will send a link later today. 00:28:25 Chris Goldschmidt: Hello from Alabama! 00:28:31 Chris Goldschmidt: Love your book! 00:29:12 Barbie Halaby: What an amazing career. 00:29:14 Amanda Jackson: 👏 00:30:12 Glenda Burgess: Thirty years! Major congrats, Ben!! 00:30:21 Molly Rookwood: Very true! My teachers in publishing school emphasized over and over how hard it is to break into the industry, which is why many of us (myself included) wound up freelancing! 00:30:35 Jimena Gonzalez: 30 years! Congratulations! 00:30:42 Barbara Jump: Oxford comma users unite! 00:33:08 Christian Wilkie: I'm still wrapping my head around the idea of editors as the taste-maker of a publication, choosing jobs and articles with their guiding vision. Sounds like awesome responsibility. 00:35:05 Joanne Williams: Sort of like detective work! 00:35:26 Molly Rookwood: As a romance editor, I was thinking about the word “murmur” this morning! My editing tip of the day for romance writers is to Ctrl+F “murmured”/“breathed”/“rasped” and delete 95% of them. 00:35:40 Bart Acocella: Catalyst is a great word! 00:35:44 Mihaela Biliovschi: Veep: "Robust" 00:35:50 Melissa Somerdin: I apparently like the word "elucidate" haha. 00:36:05 Kim Ledgerwood: I can’t even imagine how daunting it would be to c/e Benjamin Dreyer 😅 00:36:07 Christian Wilkie: Often it takes another set of eyes to notice someone's tendencies. 00:36:15 Melissa Lynch: I work at a university. There are so many words I want to ban… “impact” being number one. 00:36:25 Molly Rookwood: Impact for sure, Melissa! 00:36:26 Chris Goldschmidt: Me? Callipygean. But the occasion doesn't arise very often. 00:36:33 Melissa Lynch: And of course, impactful! Ha! 00:36:36 Deborah Ring: Impactful, evern worse 00:36:53 Stephanie Rowe: Oh god, I hate impactful so much 00:36:53 Vineeta Anand: I'm with you. Impacted. Prioritize. So many to delete. 00:36:55 Heather Hughes: I'm with you, Melissa. Especially when it's used as a verb. 00:36:56 Mihaela Biliovschi: Individual 00:36:57 Sally Bahner: Writing is the hardest thing I do! 00:36:59 Caroline Smrstik: Impact as a verb? aaarrrggghhh 00:37:07 Raju Chebium: Impact when used as a verb. Please. Banish. Forever. 00:37:19 Jessica Novotny: I work in public relations so this is very insightful, but the word I hate seeing in press releases is excited haha “we are excited to announce” etc haha 00:37:36 Judy Libman: “Passionate about” 00:37:47 Bill Horner: At my newspaper, we don’t like the word local. If you’re writing for a community newspaper, everything is always local (I am still guilty of accidentally using that word from time to time haha) 00:37:47 Mihaela Biliovschi: "Take a listen" 00:37:50 Angela Greiling Keane: Stakeholders - just no 00:37:51 Sally Bahner: Really! Like… “I am dismayed to announce…” 00:38:00 Maria Sestito: ha! 00:38:02 Jordan Piel: I wouldn’t mind if “reach out” went away 00:38:09 Sally Bahner: Yes! 00:38:12 Vineeta Anand: At the end of the day. Also "thought leader." 00:38:13 Stephanie Rowe: I find the use of the word concerning concerning 00:38:20 Raju Chebium: Stakeholders are passionately excited people who are impacting the corporate world. 00:38:24 Deborah Ring: Problematize 00:38:25 Jennie Callas: I would ban utilize 00:38:31 Sally Bahner: Yes, again! 00:38:33 Amy Fickling: Ready to move on from "reach out" 00:38:33 Melissa Lynch: Also, another university thing, especially in communications to students, is the excessive use of exclamation points. Why are we so excited all the time? 00:38:35 Morgan Soares-Astbury: I second "utilize” 00:38:35 Vineeta Anand: Me too. 00:38:37 Chris Goldschmidt: So. When is the AP Stylebook most useful? When starting a campfire or when one has forgetten to purchase toilet tissue? 00:38:38 Cheryl Knott: signage 00:38:44 Robert Friedman: hopefully 00:38:46 Candida Hadley: third on “utilize” 00:38:47 Veronica Tremblay: Anything edge. Leading edge, bleeding edge, Cutting edge... 00:38:54 Tom Reale: Top of mind- lose it! 00:38:55 Bart Acocella: "systemize" is rearing its ugly head in my org 00:38:55 Dawn Mangine: Yes to banning utilize. Just use something, don’t utilize it. 00:39:04 Nancy Dreyer: ndexpor3 00:39:06 Jacqueline Baumgardt: I feel intimidated because I don't know CMOS - which I should apparently be familiar with 00:39:07 Lynn Greiner: I have both U.S. and UK editions. 00:39:09 Robin Cain: Business writer - please ban all forms of the word "strategy" - the real and made up ones! 00:39:18 Chris Goldschmidt: What about 00:39:24 Chris Goldschmidt: Strategize? 00:39:45 Robin Cain: ALL OF THEM! Lol 00:39:47 Molly Rookwood: Jacqueline, CMOS is definitely intimidating! But the index makes it much more manageable 🙂 00:39:54 DeAnna Burghart: Never too late to learn, @Jacqueline Baumgardt. :) I'm still learning APA. 00:40:04 Julie Ehlers: Yes!!! 00:40:10 JoAnn: "grow the," as in "grow the economy." 00:40:23 Caroline Smrstik: My CMOS nestles up to Dreyer. They are both looking at me right now. 00:40:54 Lynn Greiner: business and tech writer - lose "strategy" - and "solution" ... and I have a list of others. 00:41:13 Joanna MacGugan: ‘Outreach’ as a verb. *cringe* 00:41:19 Melissa Lynch: I agree with everyone pushing for a ban of “utilize”!! 00:41:23 Dawn Mangine: “Solutioning” 00:41:31 Sally Bahner: Why do people STILL hyphenate adverbs with adjectives?? 00:41:53 Jane St. Clair: GREAT question. 00:41:56 Robert Friedman: “impacting”: ugh 00:41:59 John French: Impact vs affect. 00:41:59 Caroline Smrstik: If all of the business and tech writers agree on these sensible bans, where are these damned words coming from? Who keeps insisting? 00:42:06 Jacqueline Baumgardt: and what about ChatGPT, Ashley? 00:42:12 Robin Cain: The business world is getting a little fast and loose with all forms of "innovate" as well. :( 00:42:16 Sally Bahner: Noooooooooooo! 00:42:23 Laurie Ulster: Loving the Star Trek references. 00:42:32 Martin Heller: Caroline, it’s mostly the marketers. 00:42:55 Caroline Smrstik: Good point, Martin. 00:43:10 Lynn Greiner: business and tech writers have to suffer through PR-speak. I'm always telling my writers to eliminate the PR-speak (Iam both writer and editor) 00:43:45 Jessica Novotny: “Innovative new strategy” 00:43:59 Lynn Greiner: "new innovation" 00:44:01 Tim Bronson: “Solve" as a noun. Ugh. 00:44:04 Jacqueline Baumgardt: Lol, Jessica 00:44:16 Bart Acocella: solve as a noun? 00:44:18 Robin Cain: Jessica, nooooooo! lol 00:44:30 Jessica Novotny: haha 00:44:31 Bart Acocella: never heard that usage -- sounds dreadful 00:44:35 Tim Bronson: “Hey, that’s a great solve, Bart." Horrible. 00:44:43 Cheryl Knott: "excited for" I think there was a tweet about that recently :) 00:44:43 Bart Acocella: oh no 00:45:13 Judy Libman: “Chief Strategy Officer” — ??? 00:45:14 Caroline Smrstik: Am in the middle of a magazine edit and feel like I’ve been blowtorching these terms (utilize, impactful, bespoke solution, etc.) 24/7 for the past month. 00:45:35 Dylan Colt: 👍🏼 00:46:34 DeAnna Burghart: It's a humbling experience editing something that you disagree with. You have to set aside your preconceived notions and go along with the author's intent. Can be very challenging (in a good way). 00:46:47 Melissa Lynch: So true, DeAnna! 00:47:16 Martin Heller: “Ask” as a noun. Ugh. 00:47:24 Anita H: Yes, cuz at the end of the day - 'says who?' 00:47:25 Molly Rookwood: The capitalization of Black is a great example. It was one of those things where as soon as someone pointed it out, I went “Oh, sure, that makes total sense,” and it seemed like everyone else did too! 00:47:35 Joanna MacGugan: That’s a big ask, Martin. 😁 00:47:38 Melissa Lynch: We have an editorial style at my university but getting people to pay attention and use it is nearly impossible. So frustrating! 00:47:45 Beth Francesco (she/her) / NPCJI: We'll turn to audience questions in just a little while: If you'd like to ask Mr. Dreyer a question, please add it to the Q&A. We'll get to as many as possible! 00:48:02 Cheryl Knott: I was just about to ask about how often the house style manual gets updated . . . 00:48:13 Cheryl Knott: about twice, yikes 00:48:16 Bart Acocella: passive voice isn't as bad as the conventional wisdom says!! 00:48:31 JoAnn: Nixon loved it! 00:48:32 Mihaela Biliovschi: Excellent question Ashley about the passive voice. 00:48:40 Anita H: active voice has more energy 00:48:50 Molly Rookwood: I think that learning how to correct passive voice is super important, but so is learning when passive voice is useful! 00:49:00 Bart Acocella: @molly yes 00:49:16 Raju Chebium: Sentences written in the active voice tend to be shorter and more precise. 00:49:24 Molly Rookwood: Sometimes passive voice is the best way to convey something, especially if the focus is on the recipient of the action. 00:49:35 Anita H: @raju yes 00:49:36 DeAnna Burghart: My objection to passive voice is when it legitimately hides actors or responsibility. "Mistakes were made," frex. 00:49:38 Carol Mangis: Passive voice can give unearned authority to a declaration. 00:49:46 Molly Rookwood: Totally agree with what he’s saying right now. 00:50:08 DeAnna Burghart: +1 @Molly 00:50:18 Martin Heller: JoAnn, Nixon also spoke about himself in the third person. 00:50:20 Bart Acocella: bingo 00:50:22 Dylan Colt: 👍🏼 00:50:47 Anita H: yes 00:50:55 Raju Chebium: Right on, DeAnna. "Mistakes were made" is so prevalent in Washington speak 00:50:58 Bridget Serchak: Mistakes were made.... 00:51:16 Anita H: Passive voice seems cowardly to me 00:51:34 Carol Mangis: “It's well known that…” 00:51:34 Stephanie Rowe: Passive voice is great for irony tho 00:51:40 Anita H: Assert or sit down 😆 00:51:40 Bart Acocella: : ) 00:51:49 Andy Lusk: “Officer-involved death” strikes again! 00:51:51 Melissa Somerdin: "Mistakes were made" is such a good example haha 00:51:54 Amy Paradysz: Should it ever be used where identifying the "actor" is not where we want to put the emphasis? 00:52:12 Anita H: good question 00:52:16 Mihaela Biliovschi: the best advantage of active voice is that it saves space on the page 00:52:20 Dylan Colt: Good check 00:52:33 Anita H: @mihaela yes 00:52:55 Bart Acocella: But passive voice is not necessarily used to skirt accountability. (and yes, I used the passive voice there). 00:52:58 Molly Rookwood: When copyediting, I sometimes use passive voice in queries to avoid being too aggressive towards the writer: “Was this intentional?”/“Readers may perceive this as [x]; is that what was intended?” vs. “Did you do this on purpose?” Sometimes it’s the kindest approach, even if less direct. 00:53:06 Anita H: I adore the word 'actually' 00:53:08 Melissa Lynch: I have “The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up (Your Writing)” tacked up on my cubicle wall! 00:53:09 Rachel George: "Needless to say" must die! 00:53:10 Robin Cain: My only hard rule about passive voice is it should never be used in instructional writing. Project managers submit estimates to. Never "Estimates are submitted to accounting, by project managers." 00:53:13 Jennifer Sergent: that, in order to 00:53:23 Martin Heller: The object was taken by person or persons unknown. (I used to write a weekly police log.) 00:53:27 Dawn Mangine: “Really” is my downfall. I work hard to get away from it. 00:53:38 Sarah Dolezal: for example 00:53:41 Jessica Novotny: Filler words, like like 00:53:52 Deborah Brody: very is very annoying 00:54:03 Beverly Aland: “Just” annoying! 00:54:06 Anita H: haha true 00:54:07 Morgan Soares-Astbury: @MollyRookwood - Agreed with this approach to passive voice. (I think we overlapped at King's, glad to see a few people from Halifax here!) 00:54:14 Melissa Lynch: “Very unique” ;-) 00:54:15 Melissa Somerdin: Interesting take 00:54:24 Molly Rookwood: So fun! Hey Morgan! 00:54:31 Heather Hughes: "Needless to say" is another one that rarely needs to be said. 00:54:32 Christine Lehmann: I am a journalist and head editor said we shouldn't use words like "surprising" or "surprisingly" or "unfortunately". Your opinion, please. 00:54:35 Jennifer Sergent: iconic 00:54:40 Anita H: I will never give up the word, 'actually' 00:54:51 Jeffrey Brenner: No better Twitter follow than Dreyer 00:54:53 Bart Acocella: a friend of mine says iconic has come to mean: "thing I like a lot" 00:55:06 Jessica Novotny: @Christine, that’s a good question! 00:55:21 Carol Mangis: @Bart true! 00:55:24 Jan Harness: Questions for Benjamin: Are you still editing books for your authors or do you have time for that? Are you writing a novel? 00:55:27 DeAnna Burghart: @Bart, "Thing I think is popular" is a good definition 2 :) 00:55:28 Anita H: In fact, it shall be written in the 'program,' she is actually dead, and today we shall bury her!' 🤣 00:55:30 Maria Sestito: I love when people catch my mistakes BEFORE publishing lol THANK YOU 00:55:48 Jan Harness: "Start by listening" is a brilliant piece of advice for life in general. 00:55:56 Todd South: I'm a career journalist who must follow the AP Style Guide for my copy. Many years ago an editor told me to use "estimate" "approximately" "about" and other terms for number estimates but never "around." For example: Officials estimated 2,000 people attended the protest. There were about 100 people in attendance. But never --- She saw around 200 runners at the starting line. Thoughts? 00:55:58 Sarah Dolezal: 😂 00:56:11 Jordan Piel: @Jan one of the Habits of Highly Effective People 🙂 00:56:36 Maria Sestito: Number estimates. Loath. 00:56:49 Bill Horner: @Todd I think it sounds more to the point than using around 00:56:54 Anita H: @jan yes 00:57:02 Bart Acocella: I like "roughly" 00:57:25 Dylan Colt: 😂 I love that! 00:58:19 Jennifer Sergent: I quote CMOS when a writer rejects my edit. Our communications team follows CMOS and I want to point out that I'm not changing somethign because I don't like the author's term but because it's our style. 00:58:24 Jenny Jones: https://open.spotify.com/track/7iqAuZe5yS0suLQcFfVK39?si=461d6b33ed22406a 00:58:34 Melanie Cohen: There's a song by the band Wet Leg called "Chaise Longue," would recommend. 00:58:43 Tessa Thornley: Excellent. That that exact chaise longue question come up in a ms this morning 00:58:48 Melanie Cohen: Jenny, jinx! 00:58:50 Jenny Jones: Melanie! Great minds think alike. 🙂 00:58:58 Karen Bond: I just learned yesterday that calvary is not cavalry. 00:59:00 Dylan Colt: ❤️ 00:59:01 Robin Cain: "More than 100k..." vs "Over 100k..." 00:59:13 Victoria Jennings: @Melanie such a great song! 00:59:46 Christian Wilkie: Sometimes it's difficult, trying to figure out how to suggest a serious edit without the writer feeling compromised or chastised. One does not wish to be discouraging. 00:59:55 Vineeta Anand: Can we please stop using "in terms of" and "with reference to?" 00:59:58 Bart Acocella: As a speechwriter, I use over. But for the written word..."more than" 01:00:09 Lynn Greiner: For one of my writers, English is a second language - I often have to help them with idioms 01:00:21 Molly Rookwood: Absolutely, Christian. I think it’s so helpful to have editorial colleagues to turn to for help with difficult phrasing for serious issues! 01:00:22 Pia Salter: - To avoid being seen as mean, make sure to mention things the author does well too! - Also, I fully agree, read ahead. Read aloud if you can. - When requesting specific changes, say please now and then. - If you can provide alternative corrections for a writer to choose between, they'll feel like they have more agency. - If you go through their work in person or online in real time, keep a positive tone of voice. Frame it like something you're doing together, not something you're doing to their work. :) 01:00:25 Robin Cain: Interesting, 01:00:34 Robin Cain: @Bart. 01:00:50 Joanna MacGugan: Looove Janet Evanovich!! 01:01:08 Molly Rookwood: Pia, totally agree with all of those points! 01:01:40 Christian Wilkie: I work at a university, and I've worked at various marketing agencies. I've always been the only in-house editor, and I would desperately love to work with one or two other copyeditors to work these questions out. I envy any editor who gets to work on a team. 01:02:33 Sally Bahner: One space versus two after the period — how do you deal?? 01:02:44 Carol Mangis: @Christian I started my career on a copyedit team, and that was the best fun! I miss them all. 01:02:45 Bart Acocella: one one one ONE 01:02:52 Robin Cain: One! Unless you're using a typewriter. :) 01:02:59 Jenny Jones: Aaaaaah I hate double spaces after the period. One for sure! 01:03:03 Melissa Lynch: @Christian - same here! 01:03:05 DeAnna Burghart: @Sally: search & replace. :D 01:03:14 Sally Bahner: But that’s how I learned in high school!!! 01:03:19 Sally Bahner: Not! 01:03:22 Elizabeth Colton: All such great tips, Ben Dreyer. I also coach speakers in writing and delivering speeches and find that all you're saying about how you approach copy-editing is similar to how I go about speech-coaching, helping with writing & delivery. Many thanks for making all these useful points from your work. 01:03:48 Molly Rookwood: To the questions in the Q&A about finding oneself being mean in queries and edits: If you find yourself being mean in the comments, leave, take a break, and come back when you’re feeling less grumpy about it. There’s no value in making writers feel attacked. Effective editing only happens when the writer feels respected and trusts you not to attack them. 01:04:40 Lynn Greiner: I try to encourage my writers to do a final pass at their stories in Preview mode in WordPress - somehow things jump out there that you don't see in the editor 01:05:00 Cheryl Barnes-Neff: Be sure to read your work aloud - you'll catch lots of issues that way 01:05:12 Jenny Jones: I like reading backwards. 01:05:19 Jessica Novotny: Yes! 01:05:20 Cheryl Barnes-Neff: heh 01:05:21 Joanna MacGugan: Cheryl I always taught my first-year writing students to read their work aloud. 01:05:22 Anne Ladewig: Cheryl Barnes!!!! 01:05:22 Melissa Somerdin: Reading out loud helps so much! 01:05:26 Joanne Williams: YES- CB and LG- these things work! 01:05:29 Jessica Novotny: I always read out loud 01:05:32 Caroline Smrstik: ALWAYS! 01:05:32 Elizabeth Colton: Definitely, read out loud. That's the advice I offer writers and speakers all the time. It's very effective. 01:05:37 Holly Silvers: I always recommend my students read their work aloud. 01:05:38 Jennifer Sergent: Cheryl and Jenny, 100 percent! 01:05:39 Raju Chebium: YES to reading out loud!! 01:05:48 Raju Chebium: Steinbeck's tip as well. Read the thing out loud 01:05:56 Molly Rookwood: @Christian, I’m a freelancer, so I’m always working alone, but I’ve found that my online editing community is so great for bouncing things off each other! I have a small mastermind group and have been so grateful for their input for things like “My writer accidentally used an antisemitic trope and I need to kindly advise her away from it.” 01:06:00 Melissa Lynch: @Lynn - So true! When we wee our alumni magazine in layout, we see things that we missed in Word. 01:06:37 Cheryl Barnes-Neff: start from the bottom and read up is good for proof reading 01:06:47 Bart Acocella: @Raj, absolutely! Especially for speeches. 01:07:19 Sally Bahner: Yep, text at 200 percent! 01:07:23 Raju Chebium: reading from the bottom is a great tip 01:07:43 Bart Acocella: Ohhh, I don't like 200 percent. I need to see thinks in greater context. 01:07:53 Molly Rookwood: One of my favourite resources: https://consciousstyleguide.com/ 01:07:55 Robin Cain: Anyone use online editing programs? I think it's a good first-stop before submitting to human editors. 01:07:56 National Press Club Journalism Institute: Reminder: We will email you a copy of the recording. You can also watch it here: https://www.pressclubinstitute.org/event/exploring-craft-a-master-class-in-copyediting-from-the-author-of-dreyers-english/ 01:08:07 Kay Brogno: Yes!! Words into Type. 01:08:10 Bart Acocella: Probably because over 50...but I catch more things when I print it out. 01:08:11 Lisa Tally: I love “Words Into Type” — have had my copy for 30 years. 01:08:17 Elizabeth Colton: This is fabulous! Benjamin Dreyer, you are as great giving advice in person as you are through writing in your book. Thanks! 01:08:24 Jessica Novotny: Thoughts on Grammarly? 01:08:26 Jenny Jones: Has anyone read Words into Flesh? I've had my copy since college and find it invaluable. 01:08:38 Molly Rookwood: I just got my copy of The Chicago Guide to Copyediting Fiction, which came out today! So excited about it! 01:08:53 Robin Cain: I like ProWritingAid.com 01:08:57 Jenny Jones: Oh, what about ChatGPT? KIDDING. 01:09:13 Cheryl Barnes-Neff: lol, Jenny 01:09:19 Lynn Greiner: @Jessica, Grammarly is introducing generative AI - be afraid ... 01:09:21 Jennifer Sergent: CMOS has a great blog too: https://cmosshoptalk.com/ 01:09:27 Mihaela Biliovschi: Just ordered Words Into Type ... ouch! 01:09:45 Lynn Greiner: you can subscribe to an online version of the CP Style Guide (for Canadians) 01:09:46 Jessica Novotny: Everything is introducing generative AI now haha 01:10:29 Glenda Burgess: Thanks for the blog tip @Jennifer. Love Matt Bell's book. 01:11:01 Sally Bahner: BOOM!!! 01:11:51 Laurie Ulster: eBay has cheap copies of Words Into Type 01:12:02 Christopher Lee: Not for long 01:12:04 Sally Bahner: The pressure on smaller local papers is intense. 01:12:11 Rachel Hellman: ^^!!! 01:12:13 Sarah Samms: what was the title of the last book he was talking about? 01:12:23 Anna Yukhananov: amazon also has cheap copies of used versions of Words Into Type 01:12:29 R Kearey: Refuse to Be Done - Matt Bell 01:12:33 Sarah Samms: thanks! 01:12:58 Jim Duffy: I once worked for an editor-in-chief who said, "What do we need all these copy editors for? The copy is fine." He ended up firing the entire copy desk (including me). Two months later he re-hired me and started hiring copy editors again. 01:12:59 Cheryl Barnes-Neff: proof reading is never done 01:13:04 Caroline Smrstik: I learned basics of copyediting from a newspaperman. Back when there were newspapers. With copy editors. I feel like a dinosaur. 01:13:06 Sally Bahner: True!! 01:13:32 Molly Rookwood: I mostly work with self-publishing writers, and I am grateful for every writer who recognizes that copyediting, at the very least, is necessary. I always tell my clients that if there’s only room in the budget for one round of editing, copyediting is essential. 01:14:10 Andrew Branca: Who is the author of Words into type? 01:14:23 Sarah Sparks: Copy editing was my first daily news job (4-11 p.m. shift!) and I thought it was incredibly helpful for my own writing and reporting. 01:14:41 Ann Fields: If you leave Twitter, would you please let us know where you landed? 01:14:44 Sally Bahner: A good editor MUSTbe a good writer! 01:14:46 Robin Cain: Majorie Skillin & Robert Gay 01:15:06 Robin Cain: @Andrew B. 01:15:32 Laura Hebert: I’d like to hear the speaker talk about ChatGpt 01:15:40 Nancy Dalva: Merce Cunningham: The only way to do it is to do it. 01:15:45 Carol Mangis: @Laura yes! 01:15:47 Nancy Dalva: George Balanchine: Just do the steps. 01:15:58 Jodieann Stephenson: Love that! 01:16:27 Melissa Somerdin: I like that! It sounds less intimidating somehow. 01:16:27 Cheryl Barnes-Neff: I think that's part of the fear of the editor - that when they're done, the work will sound like them, not me anymore 01:16:35 Pia Salter: Has anyone here made the switch from freelancer to working for a major company? I worry that my time as a freelancer may be seen as wasted time if I apply for a more formal job, but I'm tired of the freelance grind. 01:17:15 Nancy Dreyer: YAY, I hate grammar correction software. too stuffy! 01:17:30 Joanna MacGugan: I love PerfectIt, though. 01:17:31 Mihaela Biliovschi: Grammar correction software is horrendous 01:17:38 Cynthia Williams: Same, Jo 01:17:45 Renee Nelson: I also like this book by Amy Einsohn. https://www.amazon.com/Copyeditors-Handbook-Publishing-Corporate-Communications/dp/0520271564 01:17:46 Jessica Novotny: I feel like grammar software reduces the voice of the work 01:17:47 Melissa Somerdin: Oh wow 01:17:52 Beth Francesco (she/her) / NPCJI: Hi! We will share the chat with all. Great idea. 01:17:53 Stephanie Rowe: And too often wrong 01:17:56 Lynn Greiner: @Nancy my usual reaction to some of the suggestions is to scream "Stop 'helping' me!" 01:18:09 DeAnna Burghart: @Pia, I went from full-time freelance (5-ish years) back to part-time and working almost full time with ITHAKA. They do value my skills, but I'm in the corp comm department. Experiences may vary, I suppose. 01:18:16 Rylie Munn: Ive heard about copy editors using ChatGPT lately 01:18:25 Laura Hebert: Can we ask all the attendees to put their favorite resources (books or tools) in the chat? So much wonderful experience gathered here! 01:18:32 Jennifer Sergent: Pia I did that and it's been great. My freelance/journo background has really served me well as sr. comms writer for a large architecture firm. I was hired because of my freelance background, which included website back end knowledge, blogging, and many different kinds of writing for different clients 01:18:32 Beth Francesco (she/her) / NPCJI: As Benjamin and Ashley answer the final questions, we have one for you: How will your work change because of this program? Please tell us in the chat. “Because of this program I…” 01:19:12 Helene van der Westhuizen: So can we get you on speed dial? 01:19:20 Laura Hebert: @Pia - I have a copyediting position open. Let me know if you want to chat. j.eddy@eddyalexander.com 01:19:21 Jennifer Sergent: My best takeaway is to work to support the writer, with edit suggestions instead of impositions 01:19:33 Laura Hebert: @Helene - I love this comment :0) 01:19:34 Joanne Williams: Because of this program I will be more confident in echoing the words Mr. Dreyer and I use to advise and be more gentle in that advice. Thanks 01:19:49 Christi Cassidy: Don't chide the writer. 01:19:52 Ann Fields: Because of this program, I commit to reading my copy out loud before I submit to the editor. 01:19:59 Amy Fickling: Because of this program I will : explore more resources in print available based on the speaker's suggestions of books on copy editing to read. 01:20:37 Tari Stratton: thank you so much! 01:20:41 Robin Cain: I will read to listen, first. 01:20:41 Beth Wojiski: This has been amazing, thank you so much! 01:20:42 Beverly Aland: Thank you so much! 01:20:42 Robert Friedman: Great talk, thanks! 01:20:42 Dylan Colt: 👏🏼 01:20:43 Zach Cohen: This has been very helpful, thank you! 01:20:43 Laurie Ulster: This has been SO helpful 01:20:44 Mary Nuss: Because of this program I will read first before making suggestions 01:20:44 Cheryl Knott: thank you! 01:20:45 Andrew Branca: This has been great 01:20:46 Rachel Hunt: thank you! 01:20:46 Carol Mangis: Thank you! 01:20:46 Sally Bahner: This has been great! 01:20:46 Matthew Bourne: Thank you! 01:20:47 Michaeleen: Thanks for a wonderful session 01:20:47 Glenda Burgess: Wonderful and thank you! National treasure! 01:20:48 Jennie Callas: thanks so much! 01:20:48 Jane Turner: Thank you! 01:20:48 Melissa Somerdin: Thank you so much! This was awesome. 01:20:49 Mihaela Biliovschi: Deeply grateful for everything! 01:20:51 Laurie Ulster: Thank you so much for this. 01:20:52 Andrew Branca: very helpful 01:20:53 Dylan Colt: Thank you! 01:20:54 Elizabeth Colton: Much appreciation for all. 01:20:54 Anita H: thank you 01:20:55 Denise Watson: Thank you! 01:20:57 Victoria Smith: Thank you! 01:20:57 Caroline Smrstik: I feel reassured as a copyeditor. As a writer, I have a lot to think about. Thank you! 01:20:58 Barbie Halaby: Because of this program I will be more likely to honor my own training and instincts and know when to leave well enough alone. 01:20:59 Rachel George: Thank you so much! 01:20:59 Pernille Seier: Thank you! 01:21:00 Jeanmarie Hodges: Thank you. This is great! 01:21:00 Valerie Hellstein (she/her): 👏 01:21:01 Marney Ellis: Thank you so much! 01:21:01 Julie Ehlers: Thank you! 01:21:02 Halima Haque: Thank you 01:21:03 Lynn Greiner: really enjoyed this session. Thank you! 01:21:04 Holly Silvers: Thank you for your time and advice! 01:21:06 Ursula Szmulowicz: Thank you! 01:21:07 Jennifer Cinguina: Thank you thank you thank you 01:21:07 Tim Bronson: Thank you, everyone, for putting this thing together! 01:21:07 Vineeta Anand: Thank you. This was a fabulous program and Benjamin is even more amazing than I expected. 01:21:08 Laurie Ulster: He has answered questions for me on Twitter! 01:21:09 Edwin Lake: Awesome program, thanks! 01:21:10 Joe Albrecht: Thank you all so much for this program! 01:21:12 Cheryl Knott: I have learned so much from you on Twitter! 01:21:15 Christian Wilkie: Because of this program I will give a second read to manuscripts, taking time to listen carefully to the writer's intent. 01:21:15 Rebecca Shore: What will change for me: I will stop quoting style guides with authors. He is right - comes off as a "schoolmarm." 01:21:16 Gigi Papoulias: thank you from your #1 fan in Athens, Greece!! 01:21:16 DeAnna Burghart: Thank you so much, Benjamin. :D 01:21:17 Julie Goulis: Love following you on twitter. Thanks for this! 01:21:17 Laurie Hanson: Thank you! 01:21:19 Lief Nielsen: Thanks much. 01:21:22 Laurie Ulster: The desk calendar is fun too. 01:21:24 Mark Fagan: Many thanks! 01:21:25 Joan Fuchsman: Great session. Thanks so much. 01:21:27 Rachel Hellman: Thanks so much!! 01:21:28 Laura Hebert: This was wonderful! I feel like I’m in a chat room with my people. Thanks for this National Press Club! 01:21:28 Sarah Wolfson: Thanks so much! 01:21:28 National Press Club Journalism Institute: Thank you so much for joining us today! Please share your feedback in a quick survey: https://forms.gle/gJYXfus66UrJsYac7 01:21:29 Jessica Novotny: Thank you! 01:21:31 Laurie Ulster: Great session. 01:21:33 Jennie Callas: 👏🏼 01:21:34 Maria Sestito: Thank you 01:21:35 Lisa McLendon: Thank you! 01:21:38 Jane St. Clair: Thanks so much for this generous gift. 01:21:41 Bridget Serchak: Go as week without saying basically.... please! 01:21:42 MJ Bulmer: Thank you! 01:21:43 Morgan Soares-Astbury: This was wonderful, thank you! 01:21:44 Crystal Nielsen: Thank you! 01:21:47 Jimena Gonzalez: Thank you so much! 01:21:49 Mary Nuss: Thank you! DE is my favorite gift to give to new graduates. 01:21:51 Brandi Shaffer: Thank you! 01:21:54 Joann Reed: Thank you - I loved this! 01:21:54 Judy Marchman: Thank you! This was fantastic! 01:21:57 Manal Ghosain: Thank you so much. This was great! 01:21:58 Morgan Soares-Astbury: And it was great to be in the company of so many other editors at once 🙂 01:22:02 Sarah Dolezal: great talk 01:22:03 Candida Hadley: Thank you! 01:22:04 National Press Club Journalism Institute: Also for more information about our programs, please subscribe now to our newsletters: https://www.pressclubinstitute.org/subscribe/ 01:22:05 Pia Salter: My main takeaway: my process isn't half bad! Thank you very much, I feel more confident now. :) 01:22:05 Pip Rowson: Thank you! 01:22:06 Paula Breger: Thank you! 01:22:06 Laurie Ulster: Copyeditor or copy editor? 01:22:13 National Press Club Journalism Institute: Survey: https://forms.gle/gJYXfus66UrJsYac7 01:22:13 Dayo Williams: We appreciate you, Dreyer. I hope the recording of the conversation will be made available to the participants so we can go through it again at our own pace. 01:22:16 Melanie Cohen: The second for me always 01:22:16 Andy Lusk: This was awesome, thank you! I’m gonna go write with a new sense of excitement 01:22:17 Christian Wilkie: It was great to see Benjamin again. Deeply appreciate this session. 01:22:17 Lois Berkowitz: Thank you! This was amazing. 01:22:22 Renee Cordes: Thank you! 01:22:24 Kim Ledgerwood: Thank you! 01:22:24 Pia Salter: @Laurie - the eternal question 01:22:25 Samara Akers: Thank you! 01:22:25 Melanie Cohen: We never make other types of editors one word 01:22:29 Victoria Schmidt: Thank you!